Women against feminism for selfish reasons. Traditionalism. Is marriage a form of prostitution?

A lot of MRAs say that women against feminism in a traditional sense are wrong because we are essentially selfish. One MRA today called me a “selfish whore”. I am a whore because I married my husband just so that he would take care of me and my babies. I said that I did look for a guy who would be able to and want to take care of me financially when looking and this was considered by me when choosing a husband.

So I want to address two points in this post.

1)      Are traditional women against feminism for selfish reasons? Or do we care about men and society as well?

2)      Is marriage a form of prostitution when a person does not only marry purely for love?

About the first question my answer is YES. We traditional women are by and large selfish. We also think that men and society would benefit from the death of feminism. But what really drives us into rage against feminism is not the plight of men, or the plight of society. It is our own selfish driven fears that men will no longer care for us, that we won’t be able to spend time with our kids, that we will have to work and care for kids, that we will be abandoned by men and that we cannot handle the weight and responsibilities of children and ourselves alone.

It is scary. Very scary, because we see that we need men, we see that it is okay to need men. We see that we simply cannot do it on our own and we do not want to. So yea we are selfish, that does not mean that what we have to say does not count though. It also does not mean that we do not care about men at all or that no part of us is society centered. Everyone has self-centered parts and society-centered parts. It also does not mean that our arguments are not valid and logical and worth being respected.

Also it is worth remembering that when fighting a war the best fighters are the ones who have the most to gain from winning the war. So from an MRA point of view it should not matter what traditional women want or why we are anti-feminism. In fact that fact that we have something to gain from this should be seen as something positive since it means that we are more likely to be better motivated than women who have nothing to gain at all.

Now to answer the second question unfortunately I have to say YES again. Marriage as I see it is a form of prostitution. It does not mean that no feelings are involved and that love is not a part of marriage. And of course it must be noted that the biggest difference between prostitution and marriage is that marriage is a long-term prostitution contract; where the kids are considered and their welfare is put first and access to their parents and to investments from their parents are insured.

Eliminate kids from the picture and guess what society would have no problem with prostitution if the act was done without the prostitute being tricked or forced into such a decision. So just because something is like prostitution does not mean it is bad. And yes; in some sense this traditional woman is a selfish prostitute. Now that we have gotten that out of the way I wish they would listen to what I have to say about society and our future success as a society being dependent on reproduction and the male female relationship!

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15 thoughts on “Women against feminism for selfish reasons. Traditionalism. Is marriage a form of prostitution?

  1. I used to mostly agree with MRAs until I found out how most of them feel about traditional women and gender roles. It just seemed to me like they were men who were afraid of fulfilling male roles. I understand not wanting to provide for a “modern liberated woman” who buys into feminism, but I don understand there opposition to men caring for women who fufill their roles as women. I do care about men and I do think thy are greatly undervalued in this society, but the MRA way of going about solving the problem sounds the same as the feminist solution for what they thought was injustice to women. I don’t think they really care about society. If they did they wouldn’t be so against gender roles. They’re the same as feminists in my opinion.

    I don’t know if I’d consider myself selfish for being traditionally minded. I do aunt a man to take care of me and our children and provide protection as well, but I do understand in order to deserve that I need to do my job as a woman. I don’t think it’s selfish to want something from someone if you’re willing to give something they want in return. I am afraid that there aren’t enough men who want a traditional woman though. We’ve all been brainwashed to go against our roles.

    I found the prostitution comparison funny! I thought about that a while ago. Im willing to give a man sex in return for his labor. Obviously it’s much more than that, but it guess that is the basics of it.

    • I feel exactly the same. I would whole heatedly support MRAs if they were not so anti-traditionalism. They do not understand traditionalism. You are walking a tough road being a traditional woman. And everywhere you turn society is going to tell you that you are wrong and bad because of it. You are going to get told you are selfish and that you are a whore or gold-digger, entitled, princess, lazy, unfair to men.

      NONE of it is true about traditionalism or you. Wanting to have a family means that it should be your birth right to be a traditional woman. Who you marry is important. I hope you find a traditional-minded husband who allows you to be a present mother. Nothing is wrong or bad about being a traditional woman, it is actually very natural and leads to a very happy life.

  2. do you people have an actual link to this horrendous comments ? because I hang around the manosphere and this sound like BS, but hey maybe Im wrong so link a brother up.

    • Oh the person was not in the manoshpere.. it was in an anti-feminist group. The person also never claimed to be an MRA, I just assumed he was one. I think the name of the group is Anti-Feminism.. it’s on Facebook, but this is well over a year ago and it happened in the comments. It was an argument where I was trying to explain traditionalism.

    • From the manosphere I can quote how Paul Elam feels about traditional women though:

      Conservatives and traditionalists could find common ground with the MRM, but instead they attack, as Edita does in her article:

      Paul Elam for example calls traditional women nothing but mere whores. As he espouses that women ought to be feminists who do not seek commitment from loyal men. Paul Elam wants men to be free from the duty of being the breadwinner and especially from the duty of being a father. Just like feminists Paul Elam and Co. have started a bizarre vilification fest against the traditional woman. This clearly marks the merging of the feminist and MRA movements that oppose the traditional men and women who seek to combat the venomous ideology of feminism. – The Degradation of the Virtuous Woman or why Men Embrace Sluts (but Never Commit to them), Edita TWRA, Feminine Mystique, A Voice for Women, December 24, 2012

      To be fair, she’s reacting to something Paul wrote, which she quotes extensively from part of the following:

      You see, as much as you might like to delude yourself into thinking otherwise, you are not a voice in defense of men and boys, you are simply another female elitist defending the traditional power to enslave men to your needs, desires and whims.No one is fooled by your fair weather defense of MRA’s. You are acting in your self-interest and your self-interest alone. I’d sooner break bread with a feminist than a traditionalist whore seeking to protect the free labor and protection that keeps her on her bon-bon fattened ass.

      You want to help men? Get the fuck up off your lazy ass and get a job. Even better, find one that is good paying and that exposes you to every danger and hardship traditional men have been shielding women from for all time.

      You want to help men? Take on the responsibility of being one for five fucking minutes of your pampered, entitled life and see what it actually means to be one. There are women that do that, you know? Just not women like you.

      I for one am sick and fucking tired of seeing leeches come in to this movement defending nothing more than their free ride on this planet at the expense of the brainwashed bastards whose blood and sweat keeps a pillow under their ass.

      You want to help men? Then quit pretending like you know a thing about their lives and start actually learning that your traditional values are nothing more than a death trap for them so that you can take everything they earn and lavish yourself with trivial desires, before they die…and after. – A Letter to Traditional Women, Paul Elam, A Voice for Men, April 14, 2011

  3. Traditionalist women: Your Hypergamy and Female In Group Bias will no longer be subsidized by men like me. Where have all the Good Men’s sperm gone?! You….Get….Nothing!

    • we are the least hypergamous of all women, we commit to one man for life. If you choose not to subsidize us that is your choice, I wish it were different but what can I say …. if your fear is hypergamy though..traditional women dont leave their men when someone better comes along …. not unless the man has failed to wife her.

      • I think you may have meant “we are the most faithful women”,because if a man isn’t a “good provider”,he won’t get a glance. Have you seen the guy at church,without a suit?! Heathen women would at least pretend he’s worth his salt,although the want money too. Hypergamy isn’t always about the better deal,it’s sometimes about the first deal. My issue is one of “equality”. How could I be “Equals” with a being who would resent me,for doing what she does?!
        “House Husbands Just Ain’t Sexy” (YouTube)….
        We men are Glad to sacrifice for women,but she won’t return the favor. A “real man” wouldn’t ask her to…
        I Can provide traditionalism for a woman and family. I simply don’t have a desire to be a workhorse,who’s “partner” wouldn’t return the favor,ever! Thanks for replying. I have plenty of time,on my hands.

      • There is no equality between men and women. There is your flaw.. “my issue is with equality”. WE ARE NOT EQUAL. Yes women find it harder to provide for men than the other way around, but no I would not say that traditional women are any different than non-traditional in this sense. I dont want to provide for my spouse, yet I am happy that he provides for me… that is because I believe that I do certain things that he does not. I carry children, I breastfeed children and I carry them for a man who is happy to see me relaxed while doing so.

        Also relationships tend to develop and are not black and white.. they arent really ever something like “wont provide for her husband ever”. Yes to be honest if my husband did not willingly provide for me before I would have for him, if he did not express his desire to take care of me financially and have me at home with the kids etc. then I would not have been as attracted to him as I was, BUT once my husband proved himself to me… by providing for me very well and being a good husband then things changed.

        Of course now if the situation was to arise I would provide for my husband. Of course within the last 10 years we have had very hard financial times (as well as very easy times)…. times where he was without a job, times where I have worked (not while he wasn’t though), times where I even almost made 40% of what he made at the time (and I am much less skilled job wise then him), times where he was sick to the point where it seemed that he may not ever be able to go back to work (as in he lost his memory due to a concussion)….. and at no point did I think let’s trade my husband for someone else.

        My husband and I are not equals in the sense that we are the same and we don not want to be, we are different by design and that is okay. Traditional men and women are not equal. He is the head of the household and I am responsible for more child care than he is. We choose that. If he needs me to work outside of the home and it is within my power to do so I will. If not then I probably wont unless I am very bored. Also even without working outside of the home I have financially contributed to our household income simply by alleviating the need for daycare or a nanny.

        If a nanny was married to a banker and he made 10 times her income would you say they are not equals because they make different salaries. When my husband is working and I am not he makes more than 10 times want a nanny would, but then I am the nanny/maid… that is my job!! Yes often I contribute less than 10 times what my husband does financially but we choose that. We did certain things to get to that point. And yes WE did.. not only him. WE including kids who move schools every time we move countries, including me who helps with creating tenders and preparing for job pitches/interviews etc. etc. etc. And yes this is traditionalism.

        Women and men were a team in marriage, when he gains so do I… so I do what I can to help us gain. It wasnt any different in the past and it is not now. Yes the role of the man is harder, yes the role of the man is much harder than if he were to choose your path but for some people/relationships/families this is what works best.. so be it!

      • I’m glad you found a system that works for your family! I’m not going to church these days,so I have some time on my hands. Remember when I said I can provide traditionalism? Well,it would be the “lower/lowest class”…..but traditional,non the less. I’m also a Christian,so I have patriarchal leadership,virtue and all those (financially) valueless attributes. My issue of equality,is in the lies and hypocrisy. Article after article goes on to say Feminists want to be taken care of”,by men….All Women are Traditionalists!!! The easy half,that is. It’s funny to see “independent career women” looking for the traditional gender roles,they we’re “enslaved” by. I don’t think you all know about the Duluth Model or Presumed Paternity or the divorce rates,so I’ll say this: She can Pick and Choose,my choice was made for me!
        (Provider or Loser) I got asked out again yesterday,after commenting here. I said no. I know I’m locked in at thirty years of age,so I won’t sweat it,as I’ll be old soon enough! Considering the aforementioned,I literally can’t afford any mistakes…
        What do you think Mamaziller?

      • I am not Christian so we might come at things from different angles. For now I would think that you should not think of things in terms of traditional or not but that you should date and you should go out with whoever asked you out and at least give them a chance. You are a human with normal human desires ..that includes sex and touch and love and companionship§p. Don’t deny yourself those things because of a preconceived notion of what women want or who we are.

        Even if you only think of yourself, having someone is good and I think none of us truly only think of ourselves… we want to have others around and to make them happy etc. As for providing in the lower class bracket .. you and whoever you end up with will determine if that makes sense for you two. It depends on what makes you and her most happy and comfortable. When I was initially dating I knew that I wanted traditional and so did my husband..he was not rich and neither was I. Now we are pretty comfortable but if we had been lower class we would still be traditional. I dont know how much of a relationship stressor financial problems are because we have never experienced them… so I cant say if that should be a factor in deciding what you want.

        But deciding to be a provider should be primarily about how you feel about that type of relationship. Will it make you happy to know that you provide for your family etc. etc. If it is not important to you that is also fine and you will find someone who fits to you. Think about what would make you happy ..the type of woman you would be happy to spend your life with and then date like crazy until you find her. Time is ticking, dont let FALSE ideas of “all women are like this or that” block you from one of the greatest gifts of friendship that life has to offer.!!

        Not all women are the same, not all women even want a provider.. just as not all men are the same. It will take a lot of work to find the woman who fits to you so don’t waste too much time. Look for her!! Good Luck!

      • What’s up Mamaziller?! You raise some solid points. I’ve spoken to hundreds of people,over the years,about these subjects and you’re one of few who made it pass fake “equality”,so congratulations! The just try it argument is quite tempting,but reckless on my part. I have several friends whose women have filed false DV/sexual allegations,which remain unpunished,because “punishment for lying (women),would deter other “victims” from coming forward”…..so the courts say. They’re (at worst,some got of easy) on offenders registry or branded child beaters,in deep debt or jobless. I’m poor. I can’t take the hit! I’d so love to “do it for the butterflies”,but the “suicide gender gap” gives reason for evasion. You seem like an awesome woman and your few commenters are more honest than the vast majority! Remember the false allegations thing?
        Why do women lie more than men’ Because we’re ‘nicer'”
        (Article in the Guardian)
        Maybe I’m in the wrong neck of the woods,for these subjects. I’m what’s referred to as a “MGTOW”,so we’re a little more blunt than most. I think it’s security,for your children,that you seek to establish via this blog post and the large effort in requires. That’s good,but I don’t get sex out of activism,so my interest level is below even yours! (You’re already married,have kids etc) I’ve spoken to women about all these things and every single one says: “not all women”…I’m not so certain….
        this stuff is Way more serious than most men and virtually all women realize.

      • You are afraid (and rightly so) of being hurt by a woman who you might decide to trust with your heart, your soul, your money, your life. So in this situation you have 3 general choices.

        1- Stay away from women..don’t trust any, don’t get involved.
        2- Get involved with women, go slowly …don’t trust initially but be open to trusting one who seems right.
        3- Trust all women initially, give them the benefit of the doubt.. risk being hurt.

        For my personality #1 makes least sense as I would have been just as unhappy single and without a family as I would have been hurt by a guy I trusted. I tried #2 but that did not work because even when you guard yourself or try to go slowly you still fall in love with the person in front of you and you still get hurt by their actions. So then I mixed 2 and 3 and that worked for me.

        I decided o trust who I was with and to fully experience the relationship knowing fully well that I could be (and would most likely end up) hurt. I saw it as.. when you trust and live within the moment you experience something wonderful and if he/she hurts you you experience pain. But if you dont trust you experience something just okay.. not wonderful, not mind blowing, not love..and if he/she hurts you you experience the exact same pain. So you get more when you trust from the start. Also loving someone freely, is a gift to them and it makes it easier for them to love you in return.

        Okay but the problem still remains that you risk being accused of violence or rape etc. etc. Well yes, you risk that.. but life is risk/reward.. what is more important to you? Staying safe from the harm crazy women can bring or enjoying your life with a sane woman who will love you in a way no one else can?

        Yes being hurt is awful, but so is living in fear, so is being lonely, so is not having someone to love and not having someone who you know loves you. Some women are awful.. that is true. I have also heard stories that will scare you away from women, I have seen stories with my own eyes. Some of us are evil, will hurt you, will leave you broken … but even with all that to me we are worth the risks…. because nothing compares to companionship. You also have to know when to abandon ship. Do not abandon ship before you even get to know the ship.. but do leave when you see certain signs of crazy (though to be honest by the time you see the signs you are usually in too deep and will still be hurt). Even still leave after at least being given a reason.

        You know your personality.. for me the idea of being lonely for life sucks way more than the idea of being hurt by a man. You will get hurt if you decide to trust and date women.. that is certain but you also open yourself up to the chance of finding a genuine, reliable, honest love. You might not even have a concept of what the love will be like (I didnt when I was looking for someone).. but I can say now that it was worth the risks and worth the pain that the ones that did not work out brought.

        And yes I know you are thinking it is different for a woman as men are generally less crazy… maybe that is true. I can only say that I have been hurt by men but that it was worth it to find the man who is my life partner. If I had chosen to let fear determine my actions I would have never given my husband a chance and I would have lived a less happy life due to that. You have to trust to find true love though, it is a hard thing to do but there is no avoiding it. You have to trust. Because when there is too much fear you will not give what she needs you to give for her to give back. I wish you luck with which ever path you choose.. at the end of the day it depends on what your personality is and what in life means most to you.

      • The Author Paul Elam was using a shaming tactic,that is brought on by envy. These methods are usually reserved for men only,but he’s trying to show that it isn’t a fair deal for men. He then says: “like some women do”…meaning they’re “Independent”. The irony? He’s either married or cohabiting (Not sure which) & is the primary breadwinner! Leeches or whatever? I think not.The ol’ “didn’t destroy the man” is fair,but then again house husbands get no mercy,statistically or anecdotally. I’m thinking it’s the “Relational Aggression”,uasually employed by Women,that’s a real issue for Ladies and their daughters. Perhaps mentioning the divorce rates (70%+ female initiated) and how it keeps your Husband in a tenable position,May shut down the criticisms. Your other arguments are Also sound. My mother wasn’t around and my dad’s father wasn’t around,so it’s pretty obvious what happens. Thanks for the consideration and advice. I’ll probably stick with option one,as “Man Up” doesn’t work,unless it’s allowed to flourish. To be a male utility is to be devalued,then disposed of. The people shaming SAHM’S/SAHW’S should have a slice of humble pie and consider (her) gravitational influence on the man. Have a good one Mamaziller.

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