Excellent radio talk with Suzanne Venker! I agree with ever word.
Excellent radio talk with Suzanne Venker! I agree with ever word.
To the PUAs and others who complain about the fattening up of western women and who fat shame like these people.
I just want to say you can fat shame all you want just DO NOT complain when women value you based on the amount of money you make rather than based on who you are!!
And to the guys as njworld
I do not agree with fat shamming. I do not agree with any type of shaming, explain your point logically. njworld was not shaming though, just putting out opinions on hotness and easiness. And honestly I do not have an issue with it once the person in question understands that if he is allowed to be superficial the women he dates should be allowed the same privilege. And that means she gets to judge him on his wallet in the same exact way that he judges her on her breast and ass.
A lot of MRAs say that women against feminism in a traditional sense are wrong because we are essentially selfish. One MRA today called me a “selfish whore”. I am a whore because I married my husband just so that he would take care of me and my babies. I said that I did look for a guy who would be able to and want to take care of me financially when looking and this was considered by me when choosing a husband.
So I want to address two points in this post.
1) Are traditional women against feminism for selfish reasons? Or do we care about men and society as well?
2) Is marriage a form of prostitution when a person does not only marry purely for love?
About the first question my answer is YES. We traditional women are by and large selfish. We also think that men and society would benefit from the death of feminism. But what really drives us into rage against feminism is not the plight of men, or the plight of society. It is our own selfish driven fears that men will no longer care for us, that we won’t be able to spend time with our kids, that we will have to work and care for kids, that we will be abandoned by men and that we cannot handle the weight and responsibilities of children and ourselves alone.
It is scary. Very scary, because we see that we need men, we see that it is okay to need men. We see that we simply cannot do it on our own and we do not want to. So yea we are selfish, that does not mean that what we have to say does not count though. It also does not mean that we do not care about men at all or that no part of us is society centered. Everyone has self-centered parts and society-centered parts. It also does not mean that our arguments are not valid and logical and worth being respected.
Also it is worth remembering that when fighting a war the best fighters are the ones who have the most to gain from winning the war. So from an MRA point of view it should not matter what traditional women want or why we are anti-feminism. In fact that fact that we have something to gain from this should be seen as something positive since it means that we are more likely to be better motivated than women who have nothing to gain at all.
Now to answer the second question unfortunately I have to say YES again. Marriage as I see it is a form of prostitution. It does not mean that no feelings are involved and that love is not a part of marriage. And of course it must be noted that the biggest difference between prostitution and marriage is that marriage is a long-term prostitution contract; where the kids are considered and their welfare is put first and access to their parents and to investments from their parents are insured.
Eliminate kids from the picture and guess what society would have no problem with prostitution if the act was done without the prostitute being tricked or forced into such a decision. So just because something is like prostitution does not mean it is bad. And yes; in some sense this traditional woman is a selfish prostitute. Now that we have gotten that out of the way I wish they would listen to what I have to say about society and our future success as a society being dependent on reproduction and the male female relationship!
Being at home for the kids after school, shuttle services and taking care of you are plausible excuses, but they are excuses and flimsy ones at that. Let’s be honest, has your wife achieved Donna Reed statusor does she complain about the menial aspects of housekeeping, cooking, laundry and driving the kids everywhere? Do you eat a lot of takeout food and pre-prepared meals?
By voluntarily giving up her career and making herself dependent, she’s infantilized herself and placed an unfair burden on you. Also, if you have a daughter(s), what kind of role model is she setting?
Except that your wife isn’t a child. She’s an adult who refuses to grow up in this respect. Women with a modicum of intelligence aren’t happy in this role. They’re stuck; trapped between an insistent, unrealistic wish to be taken care of, the desire to be recognized as an equal and their fear of being an independent adult.
Your wife’s wish to be taken care of and dependency on you will eventually breed resentment and anger in both of you.
Shrinkwrapped explains, “These people are unaware of their dependency needs and often will loudly proclaim how independent they are; at the same time, their behavior reveals their need for a parental relationship with others who are emotionally important to them.” Developmentally, they’re adolescents and “resent their dependency on their parents who embarrass them, often disgust them, and constantly fail them by virtue of their shortcomings as human beings. Adolescents have a number of developmental tasks to perform before entering a psychologically healthy young adulthood.
Your wife wants to be taken care of, but wants to be recognized as your equal. Here’s the problem: A child cannot be an equal partner to an adult. An equal relationship requires that both partners be whole, with their own fully developed identities. If she wants to be seen as an equal, she needs to be an independent adult in every sense of the word. You can’t be truly independent when you’re taking care of yourself on someone else’s dime. Children get allowances for doing chores, so they can go to the mall; adults earn paychecks to support themselves.
Why It’s Important for Your Wife to Work
- She’ll build her self-confidence and feel better about herself, which is sexy.
- It will foster independence.
- She’ll be more interesting to you and others.
- She won’t just be paying lip service when teaching the kids about the importance of an education and hard work.
- She’ll ease your financial burden, which will reduce your stress, which will make your time together more enjoyable.
Standing on your own two feet is scary, but it’s a developmental necessity. It’s part of being an adult and an equal partner. I hope for your sake and hers, she can do the psychological work and go to work.
I want to say that this is an unfair evaluation. You want to know the real reason your wife does not want to work??? Cause your wife is working. She works everyday and YOU just can’t or won’t recognize that.
This was a really sad British movie about a teenage cancer patient who was dying. Why this movie relates to feminism is because the gender roles of the main characters parents were reversed.
The father was a stay at home dad and the mother was a workaholic who did not know her own kids and was never there. I really enjoyed seeing that. I liked it and I think that stay at home dads are something that that needs to be EMBRACED by society. She was lucky to have a stay at home dad, someone to always be there for her and she was lucky to have a working mom (someone to provide for the family financially.
In most cases I think it would naturally be the mother who stays at home simply because of breastfeeding and pregnancy but in actuality it does not matter who stays at home as long as someone focuses on the kids I think it can work. There are also a lot of parents who split things so that each parents takes days off etc. and that can also work well I think. For most people it might be more efficient to have one person do it though.
The point is though, when I look at things I think it is true that more men need to be encouraged to embrace the stay at home role if that is something they would like. My best friend is a Christian and comes from s a Christian home. Her dad was a pastor and a stay at home dad (the church was built in their front yard) and her mom is a successful politician who works really hard.
Her dad was there every day to pick them up after school, he ran all the errands, cooked, did everything stay at home mothers would and the kids turned out amazingly. Two of them are scholarship winners. My friend in particular got multiple scholarships and even ranked as the person with the highest scores internationally on two of the A’level subjects that she did. The other two children are also well adjusted, seemingly happy and contribute to society.
So yea, stay at home dadhood can work and should work. But I still do not agree with forcing things on people. If a guy wants to be a stay at home father I support him 1000%, but that is only if he wants to (and his wife of course). We do not need to have 50% of stay at home parents being male to congratulate ourselves. It just needs to be socially accepted. So yea the movie was not that great but that aspect of it with role reversal was nice and refreshing. Role reversal is not for me personally but if it feels right for others they should feel empowered to do that.
MRAs have recently taken up the slogan that Traditionalism and Feminism are the two Gynocentrisms of our time. Both are female centered the say! Both benefit females more than males they say.
I just want to publicly call BS on this idea. Traditionalism and Feminism DO NOT favor women more than men. Our current reality which is a hybrid between traditionalism and feminism where women get the good parts of traditionalism and the good parts of feminism is what is gynocentric.
True traditionalism means male leadership, it means male sacrifice but also male rewards. True feminism also may not mean male sacrifice but it also means no male reward. Both traditionalism and feminism it it’s true forms value the sexes equally.
It is a gynocentric mix of the two where men get the short stick from each philosophy that MRAs should be fighting against. Leave traditionalism alone!!!
Here’s the thing TWRAs complained that I am sympathetic to MRAs and maybe I am. I believe that men currently have it worse than women. I believe that things as they are today are unfair towards men. I believe that there is misandry more so than there is misogyny.
But I also believe that MANY of the MRAs I have met online are male supremacist. That the MRAs are essentially the male version of feminism and that the MRA attack on traditionalism is unjustified. I believe that MRAs are equally as bad as feminists. What they say they are and what they actually are is to different things. They claim to be victims in the exact same way that feminists do, they demonize a past they have not even tried to understand
MRAs claim MEN’S RIGHTS ARE HUMAN RIGHTS, I say HUMAN’S RIGHTS ARE HUMANS RIGHTS. STOP THE DIVISON, STOP THE HATE. The same way you ask feminists to care more about males I am asking you MRAs to care more about females. Change your slogan, HUMAN RIGHTS ARE HUMAN RIGHTS or at the very least WOMEN’S RIGHTS ARE NOT HUMAN RIGHTS. MRAs say they want balance, or equality I say if that was all they wanted there would be no reason to demonize the past or traditional values. I will not be associated with a group of men who do the same thing to women that feminists do to men.
They demonize women, they spend hours and hours finding articles that show women in a bad light and this is not just to show balance or to counter misandry because the comments to these articles more often than not say things like “men would never do that”, “empathy is a male trait”, “women were always the more sadistic sex” and these are real comments that I have personally read. They are male supremacist. They do not want equality with women in the same way that feminists do not want equality with men.
They want separation and freedom from women.
They glorify things like the artificial womb so that they can finally be rid of women as if we have no use or value to them beyond the 9 months we spend cooking up babies.
Feminists claim women were victims of male leadership in traditionalism and patriarchy, MRAs claim men were victims of female pussy power in traditionalism and gynocentrism. Both are silly men and women were both victims of nature and not really victims of anything else.
Feminists see all the ways that the world is unfair towards women and NONE of the ways that the world is unfair towards men. MRAs see all the ways the world is unfair towards men but NONE of the ways the world is unfair towards women. Both are silly the world is sometimes unfair to women and sometimes unfair to men. Yes from my view men currently have it worse but that does not mean that there are no female issues.
Feminists see female sacrifice but do not see male sacrifice. MRAs see male sacrifice but do not see female sacrifice. Both are silly, males and female have both sacrificed historically and they continue to do so.
I am asking for a truce, I am asking for balance I am asking to address men’s issues but do not demonize women or trivialize their issues while doing so. I would have loved to be an MRA because I certainly see that men’s issues need to be addressed. But I cannot support hate groups. I cannot support a group so blind to their own hypocrisy. I cannot support a group that sees them and them alone as victims of the world, I cannot support a group dedicated to the separation and complete “independence” of the sexes.
Being an MRA is the same as being a feminist, everything MRAs say about feminists is true of MRAs exchange the words male and female and they are identical.